3.4 Working With The Framework


Individual Clean Techniques

Using Gestures – The Clean Language Way

Getting A Metaphor For A Feeling

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  • alistair donnell says:

    I’ve given it a go and I don’t know which shifts of attention I picked up on relate to which parts of the framework. While I am learning this kind of work I am finding all of my working memory maxed out paying near full attention to the verbal response and the rest paying attention to the non verbal. Having to hold a model in mind i find too much to hold in consciousness. I wonder if learning the model verbatim would help and I also wonder if I would get “stuck” in this particular model while I learn. I don’t know. Anyway here’s what I got, the numbers represent the minute and seconds and I have only recorded your question judy for each bit:

    1:44 anything else about your self?
    2:15 anything else about very close? anything else?
    2:29 anything else about there and everything you want very close?
    3:09 and that “it”, that “it”‘s like what?
    4:00 and you need to put it where it’s safe, whereabouts is safe?
    4:18 and there, what kind of there?
    4:30 anything else about the core of you there?
    4:58 anything else about clarity when there, at the core of you?
    5:18 what kind is that know when you know exactly?
    5:33 and go like that, is there anything else about it when you go like that?
    5:49 and is there anything else about it?
    6:24 is there anything else about all of that?

    To be fair now that i’ve done it I can now nip back to the framework for change model which may help me fill some blanks.

  • Judy Rees says:

    Thanks Alistair! Admittedly there is a lot to pay attention to when learning Clean Language. The great thing about analysing a videoed session is that it’s not done in real time! You can scoot back and forth between videos and watch as many times as you like.
    I won’t comment on your timings just yet, let’s see what other people come up with.
    BTW, the subject of this video is a member of this site so please keep it Clean – no personal remarks or content-based advice!

  • Neil Hitchcox says:

    Hi Judy, Great site, thank you for all your time and effort. I also thank you an behalf of my clients who will benefit greatly from what I will learn here.

    Here is what I observed from the above session.

    You open with a question to identify the desired outcome – which was to have clarity in what he does next in his courier.

    The second question was to develop the desired outcome by asking “What kind of Clarity…” Although your next question is basically the same I have a feeling that it is to mature the change that he has now recognized that this clarity involves others around him.

    Your next question again goes back to developing the desired outcome. In which he states that others need to understand. You then mature that new information by asking what kind of people need to respect it.

    Then you develop who else needs to understand. He then identifies himself (I feel this is a change as he did not recognize it before) You then mature that change by asking “Is there anything else about yourself” He then explains that it is close and if he does not grab it is will disappear. You then develop that new desired outcome – to grab it before it disappears. This is where you mature the change of having a sphere that is solid but not and that he can put people in it. You then ask “Where does it need to be to be safe” This again is maturing the change, as he then placed the sphere into his chest. The “Core of him”

    You then develop “clarity – what do you need to do next about clarity…” He then explains that he now knows exactly needs to do. Yet you do not conclude it there. You continue by asking what kind of Know his know is. Maturing his change.

    He has now found his clarity and knows what he now needs to do. Desired outcome…

    The part I find difficult is to distinguish the difference between “Develop Desired Outcome” and “Mature Changes as they occur”

    I also noted that not once did he say, “I don’t know” Some times when I ask a question like “and what kind of x is that x” I get “I don’t know, it is just an x” How do you get past “I don’t know” questions?

  • Judy Rees says:

    Neil, thanks for your comments. Again, I won’t reply in detail at this stage. However, the question about “I don’t know” is a good one. Here’s what Wendy and I said about it in our book, “Clean Language: Revealing Metaphors and Opening Minds”:

    “Q. What should I do when my client answers my question with, “I don’t know”?
    A. Most importantly, relax! It’s perfectly normal for clients to be unable to answer some questions, and it’s important not to give the impression to your client that you are fazed by their answer or that they have done something wrong by giving an honest answer.
    Often if you just pause before responding to their ‘don’t know’ they’ll keep thinking and will then be able to provide an answer to the question. If not, then simply repeat back their words as normal before backtracking to some other aspect of the metaphor landscape which has been mentioned. For example, the facilitator could say, “And you don’t know. And trees, and lake, and sky. And when sky, is there anything else about that sky?”
    Some clients answer such a lot of questions with ‘I don’t know’, that it can be regarded as a pattern. For example, Judy has at least three different kinds of situation in which “I don’t know” will be her answer. Sometimes she uses it when she can’t think of an answer, sometimes when she has lots of answers and can’t decide which to give, and occasionally when she knows the answer but doesn’t want to reveal it. In Judy’s case, an advanced facilitator working with her might choose to direct her attention to “I don’t know” in the same way as any other client words, by asking a question about it. “And what kind of don’t know is that don’t know?” or “Is there anything else about that don’t know?” would both be reasonable questions to ask.”

    One thing I’d add now is that I understand that David Grove often worked by a metaphor of taking clients to the edge of their map – and just beyond. Therefore if he was getting loads of “don’t knows” he had probably gone too far “beyond” and needed to backtrack into what the client did know, and move out in smaller steps.

  • hans van laake says:

    Hi Judy

    Here’s my take on how to apply the framework for change to the conversation in the video.

    You start out with Identifying the Outcome

    then, at 0;29 you shift to Develop Outcome by developing “clarity”

    at 1;09 you shift to Identifying Necessary Conditions when you ask more about “people need to understand” and you develop “understand” and “people”

    at1;43 you shift back to Identify Outcome by developing “for yourself”, “very close”, “it”

    at 4;02 you shift to Identifying Conditions by repeating “you need to put it where it’s safe” and develop “where”, “core”

    at 4;55 you Mature Changes by developing “clarity when there at the core of you”, “know”, “go like that”

    at 6;25 you shift again, but it seems that this is in a way beyond maturing change into more of an ecological check to find out if the changes fit the person? As I write this I wonder if it makes sense to understand this last question as part of Maturing Changes. It seems to me like you lose some vital trait of this last move if you just lump it with the other Maturing Change questions. It’s like with the earlier Maturing Change questions, you stay ‘closer’ to the proces, and with your last question about “all of that”, you take on a wider, more inclusive perspective, you take more distance from the proces so that you can consider ‘all of it’, not just that part that your attention happens to be on at the moment.

    Or is the question about “all of that” maybe what in the Framework is meant by “end”?